
Да, но тези не са "общи", а "вътрешнопартийни". Да ти обяснявам ли разликите или сам ще се ориентираш ? Мерси за щедрото предложение, но положих огромни усилия и сам се ориентирах И така: тези разлики не са в полза на аргумента, че непартийните гласове правят вота по-малко стойностен, напротив, точно обратнто. |
| Този аргумент беше осмян още в средата на август. Не е у Корбин вината, че е използвал изборните правила по-най-добрия за него начин. |
| Само илюстрирам, като база за аналогия ... Чл.28. Съратници и симпатизанти. 1. Съратниците и симпатизантите имат право да участват във формирането на политически позиции, както и да подкрепят и защитават партийната политика и участват активно в обществени, партийни и други прояви, организирани от БСП или свързани с партията. 2. Статут на съратник придобиват всички, които не са членове, но са доказали своята лоялност към партията, когато са я представлявали: в изборни листи за общински съветници, представители в ЕП и народни представители, кандидати за кметове на населени места и общини; в СИК, РИК и ЦИК от квотата на БСП; като наблюдатели и застъпници на кандидатите, излъчени от БСП; както и като експерти в различни национални и местни органи, предложени от БСП. 2.1. Придобилите статут на съратник се включват в регистър към общинските и районните съвети и на тях могат да се издават удостоверения за съратник при заявено писмено съгласие от тяхна страна. 2.2. Съратниците могат да се включват в работата на партийните организации и органи с право на съвещателен глас. 2.3. Съратниците имат право да участват в преки вътрешнопартийни избори и референдуми след необходимата регистрация. 3. Статут на симпатизант придобиват всички, които са доказали своята лоялност и активност в публични прояви, при свободно и отговорно изразяване на оценки и мнения, с които отстояват и защитават позициите на партията и на провежданата от нея политика. 3.1. Придобилите статут на симпатизант имат право на съвещателен глас при изработване и обсъждане на партийната политика. 3.2. Симпатизантите могат да бъдат консултирани при провеждане на преки вътрешнопартийни избори и референдуми, но нямат право на участие в гласуването. |
Firmin 15 Сеп 2015 15:39 Благодаря за обяснението. Последната точка малко ми се разминава с концепцията за гласуване срещу 3 паунда ... Още един въпрос: Има ли, според вас, разлика между "аз гласувам за партия КиД(краставици и домати)" и "аз гласувам за движение КиД" ? Също и съответно "Партия КиД печели 45 депутатски места" и "Движение КиД печели 45 депутатски места" ? |
И така: тези разлики не са в полза на аргумента, че непартийните гласове правят вота по-малко стойностен, напротив, точно обратнто. Не съм твърдял, че вотът е по-малко стойностен, писах единствено, че в подкрепата за Корбин има нещо куриозно. А ти защо мислиш, че е "точно обратното" ? Някакви аргументи или само отблясъци от модерната напоследък мантра, че партиите са нещо лошо ? |
| В Англия където работтят много наши сънародници беез значеени е дали е Камерон или никита Хрусчов. Нищо не можедасе промени. Управляват богатите и решават. Нали и барка в сащ обещаваше комунизъм, ама на отива си като капиталис и нищо не можа да мръдне. Вие чеете вестници? |
| Тук май всички сте великомъченици. Дейвид Камерън току-що охлади страстите на Корбин-маниаците, заливайки ги с гореща капиталистическа вода. Корбин и сие олекнаха, като сапунени балони, но проумяха, че без пари, такси, NHS и прочее няма развитие. Освен това, същите политически кретени не дадоха съгласието си за допълнителни 8-10 милиардна инжекция в безплатното британско здравеопазване, като по този начин заприличаха на путинските директиви, от който проличават видими отклонения. *** | |
Редактирано: 1 път. Последна промяна от: sybil |
| ...ето още едно мнение, от Jeremy Black is a professor of history at the University of Exeter and a senior fellow of the Foreign Policy Research Institute. He is author of over 100 books, most recently Other Pasts, Different Presents, Alternative Futures (Indiana University Press, 2015) and A Short History of Britain (Bloomsbury, 2015, 2nd ed.). The Challenge of Britain's Jeremy Corbyn September 2015 To be congratulated by Hamas, Russia and Syriza on your election may not be what most of us would want, nor to celebrate by singing the Red Flag and making clear one would not bomb ISIS militants in Syria. It is not surprising, however, if you are pro-Russia, pro-Hamas, pro-Hizbullah and pro-IRA. The election of a new head for the Labour Party in Britain, however, raises major questions about the future not only of that party but also of British politics and foreign policy and thus of Britain’s relations with the remainder of the European Union, with the United States, and more generally. The tone of British politics has also radically changed. The Prime Minister’s comment that Jeremy Corbyn posed a clear threat to Britain’s security reflected the hard-left, indeed Marxisant, character of the new Labour leader. The chairman of the Stop the War Coalition has made a range of comments over the years indicating a degree of hostility to the United States and to Britain’s defense profile that are deeply troubling. They are also totally out of line with the tradition of the Labour Party. Not only did it join a coalition government during World War Two, but Labour governments also negotiated the establishment of NATO and the development of the British atom bomb. Corbyn, instead, is in the tradition of George Lansbury, a pacifist Labour leader who, in 1939, as a former leader, regretted the decision to stand up against Hitler. During the campaign, Corbyn’s extraordinary links in the Middle East also came to the fore, notably his friendship toward Hizbullah. The issue of whether this noted critic of Israel was also anti-Semitic was also aired. Those who have scrutiniszd the matter have more than one view, but, at the very least, Corbyn’s position is questionable, and not least because of the understandable importance of Israel in relations with the United States. Moreover, there is the basic question of instincts. In the last election, the majority of the electorate did not support the Labour Party in part because they did not trust the instincts of its leader, Ed Miliband. He is responsible for the baleful system under which the election of his successor was swamped with 600,000 new members, able to join to vote for only £3 ($5). With no real control, this led to large-scale entryism by the hard-left, ensuring that the only one of the four candidates without significant experience, other than as a persistent rebel, was elected on the first ballot with 59.5% of the votes cast. With reason, Miliband was suspected by the electorate of being sympathetic to Marxism. There is scant reason to doubt that that is the preference of his successor. The vote itself is in part a protest vote, one that stems directly from the result of the last election. The failure of Labour in it and the totally unexpected ability of the Conservatives to increase their vote and win an absolute majority of seats in the House of Commons was greeted on the Left with shock and anger. It led not only to disturbances in London but also to a widespread sense that in some way the electorate was suffering from what the Marxists term false consciousness -- in other words, the electorate had been led astray. Instead of addressing the electorate, Labour has turned back. Does this matter? Does this mean obsolescence and oblivion for the party, indeed does it drive home the lesson that parties have a natural life? Would that the conclusion was that easy. In practice, the Corbyn victory has troubling short-term consequences and might also have unfortunate affects in the next general election, which is due in 2020. As far as the short-term consequences are concerned, the problem is that Britain may become less governable as an alliance between Labour and the unions causes problems. One of Corbyn’s first acts was to be embraced by Len McCluskey, boss of the Unite union and a master of Labour’s politics – the majority of Labour MPs are in some way beholden to the unions and notably to Unite. The BBC has been less than conscientious on focusing on this corruption of British politics as it is so much easier to go for Rupert Murdoch, but there is something deeply troubling about both situation and prospect. So does it all matter as far as the next election is concerned. Well yes. Labour won 30% of the vote in the latest general election despite having a dire leader and unimpressive policies, and actually benefited from a swing in England, notably winning four additional seats in London. 30% was not enough, but there is a larger left-wing once the Greens, who did well in percentage terms, and the Scottish Nationalists, who did well in terms of seats, are counted. Indeed, the electorate is in effect divided into two larger camps. There are powerful elements of volatility due to a lack of clarity about the impact of economic change, about the consequences of the referendum on continual membership of the European Union, about the possible consequences of the next leadership contest for the Conservative Party (which is due before the general election), and concerning who the new generation of voters will vote for. In the last election, 12.5% of the votes were cast for UKIP, the anti-EU party, and the Conservatives have to hope that they lose no more support to it and, instead, regain votes. The anti-austerity populist naivety of Corbyn may well be seductive for an electorate much of which is weaned on entitlements and envy. For the EU, the problem is that the election result encourages the left. It is no surprise that Syriza in Greece praises it, nor that Pablo Iglesias, the leader of Spain’s Podemos party saw it as “a step forward towards a change in Europe for the benefit of the people.” The possibility of persuading the EU to adopt more sensible policies will be affected by the prospect that the left will be vastly encouraged by Corbyn’s success. This is a matter not simply of finances but also of foreign policy. Corbyn’s election was welcomed in Russia where he is regarded as a supporter, notably because of his hostility to the United States and NATO and his attitude to the Ukraine question. Indeed, the possibility that he might come to power would represent a powerful motive for destabilizing Britain and thus NATO. Combined with the last German election and the extent to which much of the German élite is unwilling to confront Russia while German military expenditure is low, and with instability in France, Italy and Spain, the situation in Europe is far from encouraging. This is a major challenge for American policymakers in the run-up to the next presidential election. Defining a workable US foreign policy is difficult given global volatility. It has become more difficult with developments in Britain. ...а това е една немска гледна точка, достатъчно интересна да си я преведете, прави паралел между "новите лейбъристи" на Блеър и "новата среда" на Шрьодер, говори се за документа "Блеър-Шрьодер" от 1999 и неговите последствие за европейската социалдемокрация. Der neue Held der Armen Dem neuen Labour-Chef ist es gelungen, die Verlierer des Landes zu mobilisieren. Sein Sieg ist ein Bruch mit Blair und Thatcher, den man in Europa spüren wird. Von Robert Pausch 14. September 2015, Als Maggie Thatcher im Jahr 2005 ihren achtzigsten Geburtstag feierte, formulierte ihr ehemaliger Vizepremier, Geoffrey Howe, eine bemerkenswerte Würdigung: "Thatcher hat nicht nur eine, sondern zwei Parteien grundlegend verändert." Dies sei vor all den anderen Verdiensten der eigentliche Triumph ihrer elfjährigen Amtszeit. So habe sich doch in der Präsidentschaft Tony Blairs gezeigt, dass zentrale Leitlinien der Politik Thatchers mittlerweile überparteiliches Allgemeingut seien. Der ehemals so bekämpfte Thatcherismus habe sich als "irreversibel", als alternativlos erwiesen. In der Post-Thatcher-Zeit waren nun auch die Sozialdemokraten im Grundsatz für einen schlanken Staat, für Ausgabenkürzungen und Privatisierungen. Verteilungsfragen und Regulierungsabsichten rückten zunehmend in den Hintergrund. Auch Thatcher selbst schien diese Deutung zu gefallen: "Unser größter Erfolg war Tony Blair", bemerkte sie einmal lakonisch. Mit der Wahl Jeremy Corbyns, den annährend 60 Prozent der Labour-Mitglieder und -Sympathisanten zum Parteichef kürten, wurde diese stille Übereinkunft britischer Politik nun in ihren Grundfesten erschüttert. Corbyn ist Labours Linksaußen, er will die Infrastruktur verstaatlichen, die Studiengebühren abschaffen und die europäische Sparpolitik bekämpfen. Die politischen Kommentatoren dies- und jenseits der Insel reagierten auf die Entscheidung der Parteibasis mehrheitlich mit einer Mischung aus Unverständnis und Hohn: Labour habe sich mit der Wahl des realitätsfernen Radikalos offiziell davon verabschiedet, in den nächsten Jahren, ja Jahrzehnten Politik zu gestalten, den Regierungschef zu stellen, so konnte man es vielerorts lesen. Fest steht zunächst jedenfalls: Der Erfolg Corbyns bringt ein Thema zurück auf die Agenda, das aus den politischen Diskursen beinahe verschwunden schien: die Frage, wo Sozialdemokraten Wahlen gewinnen, wer der Adressat ihrer Politik ist. Neue Zielgruppe der Partei Mit der Transformation von Old zu New Labour in den Neunzigern, von "traditionalistischer" zu "moderner, innovativer" Sozialdemokratie schien diese Frage klar beantwortet. Der "middle income, middle Britian" müsse die neue Zielgruppe sein, ihn gelte es zu überzeugen, denn, so ging die Analyse, nur wer die Mitte gewinnt, kann bei den Wahlen reüssieren. Unter dem Slogan des "Dritten Weges" war diese in Großbritannien entwickelte Leiterzählung Ende der neunziger Jahre in der europäischen Sozialdemokratie überaus populär. In zahlreichen Ländern schworen sich Sozialdemokraten auf eine Politik ein, die eine maßvolle Alternative zwischen Etatismus und Marktgläubigkeit versprach. Doch in der Konsequenz – wie das Beispiel Tony Blairs wohl am augenfälligsten verdeutlicht – auch zentrale Axiome des Neoliberalismus anerkannte und programmatisch einhegte. Zu dem Schröder-Blair-Papier, das 1999 die Neuausrichtung der Sozialdemokratie festschrieb, bemerkte der FDP-Vorsitzende Wolfgang Gerhard, die Kritik am "traditionellen sozialdemokratischen Weg zur sozialen Gerechtigkeit" hätte selbst er nicht treffender formulieren können. Die Partei verlor die Ränder der Gesellschaft In Deutschland avancierte unter Gerhard Schröder die "Neue Mitte" zur zentralen, ja alleinigen Bezugsgröße sozialdemokratischer Politik. Die "Neue Mitte", das waren nicht die Kassiererinnen, Installateure und Lageristen. Erreichen wolle man die "Angestellten oder Selbstständigen mit qualifizierten Bildungsabschlüssen in den Kernbereichen der neuen Ökonomie", in "verantwortungsvollen Positionen", so formulierte es Matthias Machnig, einer der programmatischen Köpfe jener Jahre. Die strategische Fokussierung auf die Gut- und Besserverdienenden, die Leistungsträger und Wohlsituierten markierte auch die Abkehr von den traditionellen Wählermilieus. Die sozialstrukturellen Ränder der Gesellschaft rückten aus dem Blickfeld sozialdemokratischer Politik. Vom Industriearbeiter zur Pflegekraft Man könnte nun einwenden, dass dieser programmatische Schwenk nur eine folgerichtige Konsequenz aus gesellschaftlichen Veränderungsprozessen war. In den modernen Wissensgesellschaften existiert kein Industrieproletariat, keine klassenbewusste Arbeiterschaft, an die sich linke Politik richten könne. .... Vielmehr entstand ein neues Dienstleistungsproletariat: Callcentermitarbeiter, Gebäudereiniger oder Pflegekräfte, die in Vollzeit arbeiten, aber kaum genug zum Leben verdienen. Ihr Anteil belaufe sich in Deutschland, so der Soziologe Heinz Bude, auf zwölf bis 14 Prozent der gesamten Beschäftigten. In diesem neuen Proletariat gäbe es kaum Aufstiegshoffnungen. Von der Politik seien sie enttäuscht und hätten die Hoffnung auf Veränderung aufgegeben. In Deutschland, aber auch in anderen europäischen Staaten manifestierte sich dieser Abkopplungsprozess in einer rasant sinkenden Wahlbeteiligung. In den sozialen Brennpunkten und Hochhaussiedlungen geht vielerorts kaum mehr die Hälfte der Bürger zu den Wahlen. Anzeige Jeremy Corbyn, und dies ist das Interessante an seiner Wahl, ist es gelungen, dieses Milieu der Abgehängten, der Verlierer und Underdogs durch seinen populistischen Bruch mit dem Post-Thatcher-Konsens zu mobilisieren. Sein Erfolg wurde, wie der Guardian schreibt, getragen von einer "Graswurzelbewegung" der "Armen und Schlechtbezahlten". Corbyn werde gewählt von jenen, die 50 Stunden arbeiten, aber trotzdem ihre Miete nicht bezahlen können, konstatiert der Independent. Großbritannien als Laboratorium Die britische Sozialdemokratie wird sich gezwungen sehen, das Verhältnis zur eigenen Wählerschaft neu zu verhandeln, die Frage zu beantworten, wen sozialdemokratische Politik adressieren soll und ob die populistische Zuspitzung ein probates Mittel sein kann. Auch der radikale Corbyn wird dabei Kompromisse eingehen müssen. Für ihn wird es darauf ankommen, ein tragfähiges Narrativ zu entwickeln, das bei den Abgehängten, aber auch in mittleren Milieus verfangen kann. Denn auch jenseits des neuen Proletariats ist man mit Modernisierungs- und Beschleunigungsprozessen überfordert und blickt skeptisch auf Ausgabenkürzung und Entstaatlichung. Unter den europäischen Sozialdemokraten, die in weiten Teilen mehr taumelnd als gestalterisch wirken, wird die Entwicklung in Großbritannien aufmerksam verfolgt. Die Diagnose einer narrativen Leere der Mitte-links-Parteien ist nicht neu, doch in Zeiten multipler Krisen und der gleichzeitigen Bedrohung durch linke (und rechte) Emporkömmlinge an den Rändern des Parteienspektrums scheint sie besonders verheerend. Wie schon in den neunziger Jahren könnte das Vereinigte Königreich rund 20 Jahre später zu einem Laboratorium für eine Neuerfindung der Sozialdemokratie werden. |
проф. дървингов 17 Сеп 2015 17:06 Най-вече защото, за разлика от десните британски медии, професорът очевидно допуска вероятността Корбин да спечели изборите през 2020, иначе за кво ще се мори да пуаши хамериканците. |
| До 2020 я камилата, я камиларя. По време на дебатите с Камерън, вашият лидер Корбин олекна. Когато тръгна спор за пари, такси и здравеопазване, Корбин изчезна от сцената. Така се случва с всеки, които се сили да гради идеологическа икономика. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ5KGhJrmLA Слушайте горното, но много внимателно. Дано английския ви е на средно ниво, защото и двамата говорят изключително чисто. Не е необходимо да четете кой какво казва. Така навремето преразказваха драсканиците на сифилитика и педофила и затуй я докарахте до тук. Слушайте оригинала и четете оригиналите. | |
Редактирано: 1 път. Последна промяна от: Stealth |
| икономическите съветници на лейбъристите, май сериозно се готвят да управляват - изночникът е сериозен немски вестник, не го подценявайте. Досежно Камерон - тия дни някакъв лорд го изпържи на тема сексиални отклонения с животни, ама това няма нищо общо с темата. |
The election of a new head for the Labour Party in Britain, however, raises major questions about the future not only of that party but also of British politics and foreign policy and thus of Britain’s relations with the remainder of the European Union, with the United States, and more generally. Но на първо време с Китай :http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/14/jeremy-corbyn-china-human-rights-record-buckingham-palace-state-banquet Jeremy Corbyn will attempt to challenge the Chinese on their human rights record when he attends a state banquet to be held by the Queen for the country’s president, Xi Jinping, next week. There had been speculation that Corbyn, as a republican, might send a substitute to the banquet but Labour has since confirmed he will attend Buckingham Palace for the ceremonial dinner. A spokesman for the Labour leader said: “He will be using the opportunity next week to raise the issue of human rights. There are meetings being discussed, and if he gets private meetings he will be raising it at those meetings. That is the right thing to do.” Впрочем досега нито един партиен лидер в Обединеното кралство не е бил бламиран от "своите" толкова скоро след избирането му: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11930309/Fiscal-charter-Labour-rebellion-live.html Jeremy Corbyn backs down Jeremy Corbyn allowed members of his ministerial team to defy him by avoiding a crucial Commons vote just hours after threatening them with the sack if they rebelled. In a sign of Mr Corbyn's lack of authority it emerged that senior Labour MPs had been given permission to be "off the whip" and abstain from voting against Conservative proposals to run a budget surplus. The Telegraph understands that shadow ministers who indicated that they were planning to rebel were initially threatened with the sack only for Mr Corbyn's position to soften when he realised the potential scale of the rebellion. The Conservatives won comfortably by 320 votes to 258. A total of 37 Labour MPs failed to vote, including 16 whose absence was "authorised". | |
Редактирано: 1 път. Последна промяна от: бонго-бонго |
| Натисни тук Labour MPs can’t decide whether their leader’s incompetence or beliefs are to blame. In fact, one stems from the other The Labour party has entered a time zone of its own in which every day is an eternity in political hell. It could yet be a twilight zone. Ed Miliband won the votes of what we will come to regard as the dizzy heights of 30 per cent of the electorate. Under Jeremy Corbyn 20 per cent is not an impossible nadir. |
| Пол Мейсън: Scratch. One. Tory. https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/scratch-one-tory-1efdada64080#.sz4jmvdzs“I am unable to watch passively whilst certain policies are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self-imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political rather than in the national economic interest,” Iain Duncan Smith, former UK Welfare Secretary Iain Duncan Smith has resigned from the British government after the annual budget included a £1.3bn attack on disability benefits. Here’s what it means in five bullet points: 1. Austerity has hit the buffers. Its aim, according to Conservative economic theory, is to kickstart growth. But it hasn’t so they need more austerity. At some point the austerity vs humanity problem was going to trigger the conscience of a Tory minister and this is it. 2. The background is the vicious Tory infighting over Europe. Given the Cameron faction is using the whole bag of dirty tricks against the Johnson/Duncan Smith faction over Brexit, IDS has clearly had enough. There will now be a strong challenge to Cameron after 23 June, whether Britain votes to stay or leave. 3. Osborne’s budget is unravelling. The education secretary Nicky Morgan last night suggested billions of pounds worth of cuts were “suggestions”. She had to cut short a TV interview today. My long engagement with Westminster leads me to see this as circumstatial evidence of a wider civil war inside the Conservative government over the scale of pointless austerity Osborne is imposing to reach his — clearly unreachable and stupid — fiscal targets. 4. This is Jeremy Corbyn’s victory. In one speech he’s blown apart the Tory front bench, made likely two substantial revolts, destroyed the cabinet and made the Tories look like incompetent fools. And the weekend is young: it’s probably not over. IDS’ letter to Cameron draws the logic clearly. 5. It’s a disaster for Blairites. They’d prepared their cabbage patches of opposition to Labour’s own new fiscal rule, and spent weeks revving up to diss Corbyn over his expected mishandling of the Budget. Instead Labour is ahead in one poll, tied in another, and its radical left leadership looks not just vindicated politically, but — and this matters in the Commons — tactically: Corbyn and McDonnell executed a near perfect hit on the government by announcing their own fiscal rule; denouncing the benefit cuts; and now splitting the cabinet. It is no longer “put up or shut up” time for the Progress wing of Labour. Just the latter.[/b] ... муахахаха | |
Редактирано: 1 път. Последна промяна от: wreckage |